Q:I'm thinking about the Laci Peterson case, where her husband was convicted of murdering both her AND her unborn child. She was far along in her pregnancy, so the fetus was viable, and I guess I'm wondering how you feel about that. I, personally, have mixed feelings.
Anonymous
I don’t think legally a fetus should ever be considered a person, not even in viability. There should definitely be laws against someone killing a fetus (without consent, and a medical doctor should be the one performing the surgery) because a person does suffer a loss. It should not ever be considered a murder, though.
So basically, I agree in the sense that the person was punished for killing their wanted potential child. Disagree that the charge was an additional count of murder.
Q:I don't see why you say abortion should be acceptable at ANY point in the pregnancy (asked by Anonymous recently). After the foetus becomes viable, or at least significantly viable, I find it more difficult to justify a change of mind. What if a woman changes her mind 40 weeks in, or going into labour - what if she changes her mind after the baby is born - where do you draw the line? I understand your intentions about "every child a wanted child", but surely there's a limit, no?
Anonymous
If someone changes their minds that late in a pregnancy, they have a reason. What’s the difference between not being able to afford a child at ten weeks or 25? Some people’s bodies don’t show signs of pregnancy. What if they didn’t know they were pregnant?
Do you know how insulting and ridiculous it sounds when you pretend people will wait until theyre going into labor to decide to have an abortion? And I’m sure you’re aware that ‘after the child is born’ is no longer abortion. The abortion debate is really a debate about controlling your own body, once a child is born it is no longer in your body.
A really important reason why we can’t draw these arbitrary lines is the same reason we can’t have anti choicers drawing them. If you say abortion should be illegal when a fetus is viable, they’ll say it can be viable at 24 weeks. Then they’ll tell you you can freeze eggs, so from conception a zygote is viable. If you make abortion illegal after a certain point, it’s going to be a line drawn that doesn’t really mean anything and it’s going to limit someone’s control of their body.
A late term abortion is not ‘bad’ or ‘wirse’ compared to an early one. It’s more expensive, their are more risks associated with it, and of someone doesn’t want to be pregnant they’ll get an abortion as soon as they know they’re sure about wanting an abortion. Not as soon as you tell them is ‘moral’
My intent is to see the stigma about abortion fade. I want more factual information about abortion to be available so people will really feel free to choose.
Feminists should have learned from the criticism of the suffrage and birth control movements.
Excluding a group of people for your own benefit is BS.
Q:are you trans or cis? what do you think of trans* people who disagree with you about this language inclusivity issue? because there are many of them, even here on Tumblr, who happen to think that discussing the abortion experiences of women AS women is totally acceptable. there's room for both conversation. it doesn't have to be either-or.
Anonymous
This might be one of the last questions I answer on this topic for now.
I am a cis woman, and I can’t speak for ‘everybody’ in any group.
So this is how I see it:
Cis woman are ALWAYS included in the abortion conversation. No one is forgetting them, believe me. So when you say women that covers cis women, trans women, all people who identify as women but that’s it.
When you say people, everyone is included. Everyone who can possibly be affected by the human abortion debate is included.
When I’m talking about a particular person I do not strip them of their preferred pronouns or anything, they are still themselves. But when I talk about the population affected by abortion I will always say people.
Q:So do you think I'm not a decent person simply because I use the word "women" instead of the word "people" when I debate abortion? If so, then why be so judgmental of me, and why be so quick to hate me? I thought liberals, and social justice advocates, were supposed to love and care about everyone, not just the members of the "cause du jour." Seriously, can you not see how hypocritical you're being?
Where did I say I hate you? Honestly, I do think you are doing harm to this movement and by knowing about the issue and refusing. I think at the very least you’re being stubborn.
I do love and care about people but you are hurting people that I love and care about. Somewhere I have to draw a line, though and I will not stand for this bs.
Submission: My two cents that didn’t fit in the ask.
Submission: I’d be wary about labelling people bigots solely because they say “women” instead of “people” in abortion debates. Fact remains that anti-choice activism is rooted in misogyny. By leaping at people’s throats because of a word and an issue they might never have even thought about does nothing to advance our cause. On the contrary, “men can get pregnant, too” IS TRUE, but it being used as an argument for pro-choice has, to me, a whiff of reinforcing patriarchy (“Look, nevermind about women, but what about the MEN?!”).
The primary targets of anti-choicers are cis women, full stop. I use inclusive language as much as I can, but trans* rights are not the main point of the abortion debate.
Fuckyeahchoice: No. Please. Stop.
First and foremost, if someone is new to this debate or this topic or this scene or whatever you want to call it, I’m not going to jump down their throat. I will explain the topic as I have multiple times in the best way that I can and hope they’re not too much of an asshole to not be able to say ‘people’.
Second, it is not a ‘what about the men’. That makes me think you don’t fully understand this issue at all. It’s not just women and men who can get pregnant. It’s also intersex people. Non-binaries and a plethora of other identities as well that you’re ‘trying to use inclusive language for’. Poor you.
You don’t think bigotry against trans* individual has a taste of misogyny? And they’re targeting cis women because they are ALSO excluding trans* people in their debates but their shitty laws are FULLY affecting them, just as they affect cis women.
This isn’t a matter of ‘trans* rights trumps abortion rights’, it’s a matter of being a decent fucking human being. It’s treating people as they should be treated within a discussion that is just as much theirs. Why battle for the rights of some? Why should only one group of people be recognized? Is it really a victory if it is at the cost of our allies?
Basically, in summary, if you can’t be bothered to say ‘people’ instead of ‘women’ or recognize that this is not a cis woman issue then I highly doubt you could be contributing anything useful to the abortion debate.
Q:Why do you believe a woman's rights are greater than the life of lives inside her, or greater than the man who contributed 50% towards them children?
Anonymous
What should the fetus or the other partner’s rights be? Only one person is pregnant, if the other partner is opposed to abortion they probably should have talked it over first. Ultimately, the pregnant person is the only person that should have a say on what happens to their body and their life.
Anyways, why do you believe anyone else should have ‘rights’ over a person’s own body? Especially something that can’t feel or think?
Maybe two(or more) people participated in the sex that resulted in pregnancy, but only one person has to go through the rest of it.
Stories from my Mother
I will be posting stories my mother has written about her life. She has been through a lot and has agreed to share. She’s also agreed to let me translate some diary entries she’s been writing since she was seven. Each story will be labeled with appropriate trigger warnings, but may not be in exact order as they happened to her in life. They’ll be translated and posted and I may add commentary about some things or clarify, but I will not be changing any of her words except names.
Some topics she has covered, for anyone wondering what to expect:
Poverty and sexism Libya
Sex work and sex trafficking
Rape, recovery and self harm
Unsafe abortion, being pregnant with an unwanted child and giving birth to it
Racism
Moving the the U.S.
These are personal stories from her perspective, she may use humor to cope in places where it may seem inappropriate. You are of course welcome to your own views and criticisms but please remember this is her life.
She has also agreed to answer questions through the ask box, anything meant for her address to Yamma.
I’ll try to get a piece out at least every week, and hopefully base some discussion off of them.
Submission re:Life Begins
I’ve always sort of wondered something about the “life begins at conception” debate… If life is simply sperm meeting egg, are the sperm and egg themselves “alive” and if so, should it be illegal to masturbate if you’re a male or, God forbid, ovulate without procreation if you’re a female? Isn’t spilling your seed preventing a child? It just seems like an argument that has too many possible holes in it. I’m completely pro-choice, I’m just curious on your thoughts.
___________________________
Sperm and eggs are living, technically. Which is where we have problems with the “It’s a scientific FACT life begins at conception” No. It’s not. Life doesn’t seem to begin at all, it seems to be transferred. The anti-choice side isn’t exactly logical or truthful at any point but I feel like this one is just something that’s confusing for everyone and I don’t blame them for not knowing all the answers to everything, I do blame them for making shit up though.
There’s no point where life suddenly begins and honestly sentience probably doesn’t really start until long after birth. So where do we draw the line? Honestly, we have it in the most logical place. We’ve drawn the line where the ‘death’ of the embryo/fetus/child/whatever stage it’s at both serves a purpose and is a burden on someone else’s body. By burden I just mean, it’s there. You don’t need to be in danger to get an abortion, you don’t need to justify it to me or anyone, you just need to not be pregnant.
